Community Management 2015


Replies (16)

RE: CM 2015 - Added by Steffen Gebert over 4 years ago

Maybe give this a more descriptive title? I did not autocomplete CM to "Community Management".

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Boris Hinzer over 4 years ago

The link to the forge issue is invalid. Even if you are logged in you get an "not authorized" error.

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Michael Stucki over 4 years ago

Hi Boris!

Boris Hinzer wrote:

The link to the forge issue is invalid. Even if you are logged in you get an "not authorized" error.

The link is correct but it points to a private project. I have notified Ric so he can make it public.

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Michael Stucki over 4 years ago

Boris Hinzer wrote:

The link to the forge issue is invalid. Even if you are logged in you get an "not authorized" error.

Changed the link to the public news now. If you have more questions, please ask again!

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Lorenz Ulrich over 4 years ago

I fail to completely understand this initiative.

As it looks like (and also was pointed out by Christian Jul Jensen on http://typo3.org/news/article/join-us-in-improving-our-community-management/), our current Community Manager Ben is not involved in this process. Is that correct? While I agree that technically the Association (and its members that approve the budget) has every right to change the system of Community Management and choose another person or group, morally it doesn't feel right to just make the job of someone who - from my POV - does a good job, dependent of a competition outcome .

The closing date for the competition is November 15th, 2014. While I agree that it's technically correct that the Community Management budget only lasts until the end of this year, I don't know who I would feel if I wouldn't know if I can still have my job in one and a half month. Is this socially responsible?

Speaking of democracy, in the August news article, it reads: "We will create a staffing committee with members of the TYPO3 community and TYPO3 Association." In the October news article: "The next step will be that the staffing committee will select the best ideas, resumes, concepts, job applications, for a presentation. So be prepared to meet us and present yourself." Who is the staffing committee? How is it legitimated?

Maybe you can elaborate more about Ben's involvement so we get to know how this is planned.

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Ric van Westhreenen over 4 years ago

Hi Lorenz,

Thanks for commenting. To prevent that your comment steers away to much from the purpose of this forum, just focus on the budget application, and not the other questions you have. This is not the right place.

Since you took the time to write, I will however give some information to take away your concerns about how the TYPO3 Association handled this.

You are claiming to know very much, about the procedure and such, but the only fact that I know of, is that you were not involved. Ben has been informed at the beginning of this year that his budget in the current form would end. So it is not a surprise, not a hostile take over, or any other big thing.

Our first article to the public about this is from august this year. That's long after we spoke with Ben about discontinuing the current way community management is done. Also you, and probably others are also incorrect to think that we exclude the current community manager from applying with good ideas. He has been invited to do so and become involved in the procedure for 2015. It's up to him to apply.

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Lorenz Ulrich over 4 years ago

Hello Ric

Thanks for your answer. Sorry, I didn't find a better place to start a discussion on that - I guess the commenting function of the news isn't much better :-).

I'm not claiming on knowing very much, I just went across the budget applications and thought about the impact of the projects and this one really puzzled me because I never heard that the way community management is currently done is discontinued. In terms of transparency it would have been best to just communicate that fact. Even if it is not a big thing and even if Ben can take part in the competition (which I never doubted, BTW), it is something worth communicating after these years of One-Man-Community Management. It would also help putting the "community management alternative job application" into perspective and therefore prevent rumors or uncomfortable questions like mine.

Do you see my point?

Lorenz

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Jigal van Hemert over 4 years ago

A comment from a non-Assocation member:

"This is not the right place" is the equivalent of slamming the door in someones face. There seems to be a need to discuss things. Either point to the "right place" or even better start a topic at that "right place" and invite people to move the discussion to that place.

From Lorenz' comments one can only conclude that he has read various articles and draws conclusions from those sources. Claiming "you were not involved" is rather agressive and inappropriate. If all these articles cause someone to draw the wrong conclusions chances are that these articles failed to communicate the correct message.

From the questions and comments I personally conclude that community members seem to appriciate the work of our current community manager. Maybe the association should consider the fact that it doesn't work if a community manager is forced upon a community from the outside (the TYPO3 Association is a body outside the community). As Benni already mentioned a community manager should come forward from or be appointed by the community.

Posting a job description on non-TYPO3 forum is even weirder. This really looks like a hostile takeover.

The best solution would be that the association donates a budget for a community manager (or team) to the community and leaves it up to the community to fill this position. The association can facilitate this process but shouldn't decide who will become community manager(s).

Just my €0,02

Jigal.

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Mathias Schreiber over 4 years ago

Ric van Westhreenen wrote:

This is not the right place.

Fair enough.
Which (public) place is?

Since you took the time to write, I will however give some information to take away your concerns about how the TYPO3 Association handled this.

Just from an outside perspective I suggest to rephrase because otherwise your intention could come across wrong (in this case: arrogant).
It is your job (!) to inform your stakeholders - in this case the members of the TYPO3 association.
Since I don't think you intended to sound this way... maybe rephrase.

You are claiming to know very much,

See above.

... is that you were not involved.

See above #3

Ben has been informed at the beginning of this year that his budget in the current form would end. So it is not a surprise, not a hostile take over, or any other big thing.

Fair enough.
Still apparently the people who are to be represented disagree.
I suggest to figure this out productively.

Cheers
Mathias

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Chris Zepernick over 4 years ago

In this case I will join the discussion here as the third "silver back" after a fourth (Patrick Broens) brought it to my attention.

Ric van Westhreenen wrote:

This is not the right place.

Like Mattes said, which one is?

You are claiming to know very much, about the procedure and such, but the only fact that I know of, is that you were not involved. Ben has been informed at the beginning of this year that his budget in the current form would end. So it is not a surprise, not a hostile take over, or any other big thing.

First of all like Mattes stated you might want to rephrase that one, because you present your self very rude and arrogant the way you do it now, and that might hopefully not be your intention.

Our first article to the public about this is from august this year. That's long after we spoke with Ben about discontinuing the current way community management is done. Also you, and probably others are also incorrect to think that we exclude the current community manager from applying with good ideas. He has been invited to do so and become involved in the procedure for 2015. It's up to him to apply.

Here is the point our (!!) current community manager is invited to apply with ideas and to get involved.

Maybe we should set the record straight here Ric. The Assoc is not an independent company providing us with some open source software. Infact we are one of the few FOSS projects which is no stired by a company but by it's community. Yet again the community was not involved in this topic until it was presented to us.

So feel invited to take some heat since you applied for the budget most people I know see allocated in person by Ben.

I am a little baffeled how politicaly this was, at least it seems that way, handled. It is to my mind not the Assoc who is to decide about the position of the community manager, and if the current assignment in its form should end, it is on us the community, the stakeholders and the ones who pay the bills to decide.

Ben has done a very good job during the last years, giving the community a face and a person to turn to. He has also done a great job reprensting us on various events outside of TYPO3 universe. Last but not least he was great in containing several, lets call them riots, if some Assoc communication like this one went south (some including me beeing very vocal and calming me down) I find it very disturbing to see an application excluding him from his current post, and seeing a job add at http://www.communityleadershipforum.com/t/typo3-association-is-looking-for-a-new-community-manager-or-team/419 for the very job.

Do you really think a community like ours should be handled from someone on the outside, let alone can be ?
Both done without informing the community about it and asking us what we think about it.

Let me close with this:

During the last years Ben has done a tremendous job managing our community, repersenting us, uniting us (sometimes even if we were furious).
As long as I don´t see him resign from the post for his own reasons, not as it seems now kind of quietly forced by parts of the Assoc, he was, is and will be the community manager for TYPO3. Wether he is paid by the assoc or not.

And yet again, year after year saying this:
Girls, guys, Ric, ... this is a community project, and we take this community thing serious!
Do not involve us, do not ask us about our opinion and there will be a lot of heat you will have to take and you will have to justify your actions.
So please, the Assoc is no company, you represent us, we are your stakeholders,.. INVOLVE US ... a community should have no closed doors, because that means you are doing it wrong...

Cheers

Chris

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Christian Müller over 4 years ago

I think all important facts are already mentioned by now so I don't want to repeat as I agree to what was said in the previous posts. Still I also want to raise the point about involving us (the community) in such important decisions and plans in regards to the community and culture of TYPO3. This is not something the association can, should or has to decide. If you had the plan to involve the community that should have been done much earlier on, and by now I actually wonder who you planned to staff the staffing committee with?

I do not blame any person personally here, this is an initiative of the association and not of an individual, but therefor I would like to request that this matter is dealt with urgently, quickly and open by the association now. Especially as it involves outside communication that first and foremost is not nice to our community manager but also feels awkward for the whole projects' outside perception.

Best,
Christian

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Patrick Broens over 4 years ago

My comment, Chris is referring to, can be found at https://www.facebook.com/groups/typo3/, since Ric mentioned this is not the right place to discuss, without giving any guidelines where it should be discussed.

Cheers
Patrick

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Ben van 't Ende over 4 years ago

Dear friends,

What was missing in the previous communication surrounding community management is the fact that the EAB, the Board and Ben have tried over months to figure out and outline what community management should entail. For various reasons rooting from all stakeholders this effort unfortunately failed. The EAB then came to the conclusion that we needed a “new” understanding of community management, not the “right” but a common one that is also transparently communicated to everyone so expectations are clear.

We all think that Ben has done a great job over the years and we would like to see him being part of community management in the future. At this stage we want to give everyone an opportunity to contribute their ideas and commitment and this will not be the last time we ask for your involvement.

Communication on the topic was not as tactful as we (the signatories) had hoped for, but will definitely be dealt with better in the future. We will continue to discuss things positively together as we have done dealing with this community issue today.

Cheers,
Board, Ben and EAB

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Ingo Schmitt over 4 years ago

Closing date for the applications was on November 15th. How many applications have been handed in?

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Ric van Westhreenen over 4 years ago

I have counted 4 applications.

RE: Community Management 2015 - Added by Ben van 't Ende over 4 years ago

please give info on the applications

    (1-16/16)