Feature #31115

Font use

Added by Ben van 't Ende almost 8 years ago. Updated about 6 years ago.

Status:
Closed
Priority:
Should have
Target version:
-
Start date:
2011-10-19
Due date:
% Done:

100%


Description

It is a standard that we use Share as font for headers. As bodytext it does not really work. Sven is currently doing the 4.6 Innovations document (http://forge.typo3.org/issues/31078). It would be cool if we can reach some consensus on what to use as bodytext font or some guidelines on it's use. In the documentation team they decided to use Baskervald ADF Std which you can get from http://arkandis.tuxfamily.org/adffonts.html.

text_example.pdf (20.7 KB) Rasmus Skjoldan, 2011-11-15 10:09

1Tests.pdf - PT Sans, Sansation, Roboto (587 KB) Martin Huber, 2012-05-01 01:03

History

#1 Updated by Robert Zierhofer almost 8 years ago

Hm... not so fancy about it... what about Open Sans?
http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/Open+Sans

#2 Updated by Sven Lubenau almost 8 years ago

What about Droid Sans? We use it in the „Generic Flyer“. Its an Open Source Font ;)

No I'm wrong. i used Liberation Sans for Bodytext.

#3 Updated by Robert Zierhofer almost 8 years ago

  • Status changed from New to Under Review
  • Assignee set to Martin Engel
  • % Done changed from 0 to 70

Design Team agreed on testing Open Sans in combination with Share on different media.
Baskervald is not an option.

#4 Updated by Jigal van Hemert almost 8 years ago

Open Sans is close to winning an award for being the most boring font in the universe.
Both Arkandis [1] and Google webfonts [2] have sans-serifs which are more legible ( see "oO0", "Il1").

Another issue with Open Sans is that a substantial part of its glyphs are Times-like; it seems that a Times-like font was used as a template for the collection of glyphs and the font itself is still unfinished.

For example:
Ubuntu (obviously for the Linux distro, but designed by Dalton Maag; renders very well in small sizes, has some nice details in larger sizes)

For code samples the font used in the OpenOffice.org documentation template is a good choice; all characters are easy to recognize and it renders well at many sizes.

[1] http://arkandis.tuxfamily.org/adffonts.html
[2] http://www.google.com/webfonts

#5 Updated by Rasmus Skjoldan almost 8 years ago

I'm not convinced it's needed at all. Will try to clarify why.

When Ralph Du Carrois drew the Share font it was absolutely also intended to be used for body texts. We discussed it a lot back then, tested it etc. Being very keen on legibility I agree that it's not the most legible font in the world IF set incorrectly (other fonts are more flexible in relation to setting it easily) - it just really depends a lot on how you typeset it.

With all respect, I think it would be a mistake to replace the Share font for body text. I just did this 3 min. example PDF. I don't find this hard to read at all when I print it and actually read the text - and the advantages of using our own font are really big. Also numerous text features are included in the Share font (Old Style and Tabular figures etc.)

The Share Regular has to be set carefully to make it easily readable - but it's definitely possible.

IF we come to the conclusion that another body text font has to be used for very long texts e.g. then it's paramount that the font is selected for being easily readable in combination with Share. The two fonts must work together. In my opinion, it's definitely not a good idea to evaluate other fonts without thoroughly testing it together with share.

Also note in my sample that there's a Share-Techmono variation of the Share font for code samples. It's not included in the Free package but in the full Share package which should obviously be used for everything official.

Hope I don't offend anyone - but stepping away from Share for body text is just not needed, in my opinion. Just set it differently:

Share-Regular, 9,5/12 with a tracking of -20 thousands of an em, preferably no hyphenation and text-lines no longer 16-18 words on average.

#6 Updated by Robert Zierhofer almost 8 years ago

Thank you Rasmus for your feedback on this one... and no it wasn't offensive at all ;)
Just fyi... in regards to testing -> update #3 "Design Team agreed on testing Open Sans in combination with Share on different media"

@Jigal:
Also thank you for your feedback.
Honestly... I do not agree with you – neither with OpenSans being the most boring font in the universe nor with it being "half done".
When searching a font it is also crucial to check the character set support and having more than one style.

Thanks!

#7 Updated by Ben van 't Ende almost 8 years ago

At the moment there is a general dislike for using Share as bodytext it seems. One of the strong points in favor of OpenSans, Robert mentions, would be the character set support. In a test I did with OpenSans and LibreOffice spacing looked really bad, though.

#8 Updated by Robert Zierhofer over 7 years ago

  • Assignee changed from Martin Engel to Martin Huber

#9 Updated by Robert Zierhofer over 7 years ago

Martin takes a look... old print buddy :)

#10 Updated by Martin Huber over 7 years ago

  • File 1Tests.pdf added
  • Status changed from Under Review to Needs Feedback
  • Assignee changed from Martin Huber to Ben van 't Ende

I played around with three fonts:

PT Sans (4 styles)
Sansation (6 styles)
Roboto (16 styles)

All Fonts are free, have accents, Euro sign...
Example attached as PDF-File.

What you think?

#11 Updated by Robert Zierhofer over 7 years ago

current favorite roboto... ben tests in libre office if it looks good (rendering)

#12 Updated by Ben van 't Ende over 7 years ago

Ben will try out Roboto in LibreOffice.

#13 Updated by Robert Zierhofer over 7 years ago

Hi Ben,
any news on this one?

#14 Updated by Felix Kopp over 7 years ago

(Please also kindly be pointed to this venture as well
http://forge.typo3.org/issues/36017)

#15 Updated by Martin Huber about 7 years ago

Adobe offers a new Sans Pro as opensource font. Looks very nice and is good readable too.
http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/Source+Sans+Pro

This could be used in printed papers as in BE too.

#16 Updated by Robert Zierhofer over 6 years ago

Again... we need Rasmus to join the discussion

#17 Updated by Robert Zierhofer about 6 years ago

  • Status changed from Needs Feedback to Closed
  • % Done changed from 70 to 100

Sans Pro makes sense....

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