http://forge.typo3.org/http://forge.typo3.org/themes/typo3_forge/favicon/favicon.png?17058661692021-06-09T06:10:36ZTYPO3 ForgeTYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453812021-06-09T06:10:36ZStefan P
<ul></ul><p>I found this issue because I'm having trouble to find out what <code>extendToSubpages</code> actually does in a real-life large setups with thousands of pages and hundreds FE groups.</p>
<p>What I found out: it applies to <code>hidden</code> , <code>startime</code> , <code>endtime</code> and <code>fe_group</code> (all of the four "classic" enable fields). But <em>how</em> it applies remains largely a mystery.</p>
<p>What happens if I set <code>extendToSubpages = 1</code> and on a subpage I set another <code>starttime</code>? Does it override the inherited starttime but keeps the other inherited enable fields as is? Or does it act as if <code>extendToSubpages = 0</code> from this point (breaking the recursion)? Or is the new <code>starttime</code> ignored? What value will "win" in which situation?</p>
<p>Or what happens if I set FE group "One" and <code>extendToSubpages = 1</code> and on a subpage I set FE group "Two"? Does this subpage now restrict the page to the FE groups "One" and "Two"? Or only "One"? Only "Two"? None?</p>
<p>The code in <code>TypoScriptFrontendController</code> regarding this field is totally unreadable.</p>
<p>And the official documentation is totally useless as well because it answers none of these questions... <a class="external" href="https://docs.typo3.org/m/typo3/tutorial-editors/master/en-us/AccessControl/Visibility/Index.html#publication-dates">https://docs.typo3.org/m/typo3/tutorial-editors/master/en-us/AccessControl/Visibility/Index.html#publication-dates</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>When you enable the Extend to Subpages setting, the publication date (and other access restrictions) also apply to all child pages of the current page. This makes it possible to apply restrictions to a whole branch of the page tree.</p>
</blockquote> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453832021-06-09T06:14:19ZStefan P
<ul><li><strong>Related to</strong> <i><a class="issue tracker-2 status-1 priority-4 priority-default" href="/issues/91504">Feature #91504</a>: Subpages of pages with access setting "extendToSubpages" should be able to override this settings</i> added</li></ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453842021-06-09T06:17:04ZStefan P
<ul></ul><p><a class="issue tracker-2 status-1 priority-4 priority-default" title="Feature: Subpages of pages with access setting "extendToSubpages" should be able to override this settings (New)" href="http://forge.typo3.org/issues/91504">#91504</a> confirms my suspicion that <code>extendToSubpages</code> is "final": stopping subpages from setting any enable fields at all and being forced to the first parent page where <code>extendToSubpages = 1</code>.</p>
<p>This is highly confusing because in tree-like structures / inheritance models one can usually always override values.</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453862021-06-09T06:20:57ZStefan P
<ul><li><strong>Related to</strong> <i><a class="issue tracker-4 status-6 priority-4 priority-default closed" href="/issues/68892">Task #68892</a>: Cleanup extendToSubpages-check in TypoScriptFrontendController</i> added</li></ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453882021-06-09T06:22:22ZStefan P
<ul><li><strong>Related to</strong> <i><a class="issue tracker-2 status-5 priority-4 priority-default closed" href="/issues/84899">Feature #84899</a>: Move extendToSubpages checkbox to make its application intuitively clear</i> added</li></ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453902021-06-09T06:26:01ZStefan P
<ul><li><strong>Related to</strong> <i><a class="issue tracker-1 status-8 priority-4 priority-default" href="/issues/87392">Bug #87392</a>: Subpages of hidden pages with extendToSubpages activated cannot be accessed even with backend login</i> added</li></ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453932021-06-09T06:29:38ZStefan P
<ul></ul><p>I collected all issues I could find regarding this topic.</p>
I suggest that in a very first step
<ul>
<li>all documentation is updated to make it clear what this setting does</li>
<li>the TCA is cleaned up: correct grouping of the fields and adding explicit labels and descriptions that also make it perfectly clear what will happen</li>
</ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453962021-06-09T06:44:59ZSybille Peterssypets@gmx.de
<ul></ul><p>@Stefan P cool! Really appreciate it.</p>
<p>You might also consider opening a separate issue (or issues) for your finding, if the behaviour gives unexpected results, preferably with examples.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>What happens if I set extendToSubpages = 1 and on a subpage I set another starttime? Does it override the inherited starttime but keeps the other inherited enable fields as is?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Intuitively, I would expect it does. Meaning each individual setting is overridden by the lower nodes in the page tree. Will verify by testing ...</p>
<p><em>If</em> that is the case, I am pretty sure, this is often not what is wanted - our editors usually only apply starttime / stoptime to a specific page.</p>
<pre><code>Another problem is that you cannot (easily) see in page tree if a page is hidden.</code></pre>
<p>My result is currently, I would like to disable it entirely.<br />(But then you would have to convert the existing settings and hiding all subpages is a pain - not found the functionality to do that, neither in list nor in info module)</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4453982021-06-09T07:16:34ZStefan P
<ul></ul><p>If the current behaviour (<code>extendToSubpages</code> "hard-locks" all enable fields of subpages) should stay it may be a valid improvement to add a display condition to the enable fields that hides the fields if the rootline has <code>extendToSubpages = 1</code> somewhere. (and if possible adds a small notice that extendToSubpages is active to explain why these fields are not visible)</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4454002021-06-09T10:04:02ZSybille Peterssypets@gmx.de
<ul></ul><p>+1 (for general idea of suggestion in previous comment)</p>
<p>I agree that a field that has no effect because it gets overriden makes no sense. Ideally the actual state should be shown with field greyed out.</p>
<p>however, I have to think about this some more ...</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4454012021-06-09T10:10:26ZSybille Peterssypets@gmx.de
<ul><li><strong>Description</strong> updated (<a title="View differences" href="/journals/445401/diff?detail_id=365990">diff</a>)</li></ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4454022021-06-09T10:13:50ZSybille Peterssypets@gmx.de
<ul><li><strong>Description</strong> updated (<a title="View differences" href="/journals/445402/diff?detail_id=365991">diff</a>)</li></ul> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4454032021-06-09T10:28:01ZSybille Peterssypets@gmx.de
<ul></ul><p>Alternatively, you might want these states, for these kind of fields with 3 states instead of 2:</p>
<ul>
<li>auto / on / off (where "auto" uses setting from parent if "extendToSubpages" is on or the default if not)</li>
<li>start time / off / auto (e.g. have a date / time field and a 3-way toggle: "on", "off" , "auto")</li>
<li>etc.</li>
</ul>
<p>auto should be default</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4733672022-08-29T15:29:28ZAnonymous
<ul></ul><p>I really appreciate OPs thoughts on "extendToSubpages" and how the UI can be improved. It is indeed very, very (I can repeat "very" as many times as the number pi has decimals) unclear, what "extendToSubpages" does and/or should do actually.</p>
<p>So here my bump and +1. Dear "core-stategists" - please have a glimpse look. This needs to be improved. "Centering the add-new-button in page module" isn't the end of UX-improvements - at least I hope so.</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4807722022-11-15T13:26:28ZChristian Toffolo
<ul></ul><p>IMHO, first of all this setting must be reversed.</p>
<p>The logic should be that a parent's setting is inherited <del>from</del> by his children. If necessary, a child can override the parent setting.</p>
<p>I'm sure any editor would expect, for example, to hide a page and that visiting its subpages will result in 404 as a result. And so it happens with the editors I deal with. I realized yesterday, with great surprise, that many child pages of hidden pages were visible and indexed by search engines :/</p>
<p>Please enlighten me if you think I am on the wrong track.</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4808022022-11-15T17:36:38ZSybille Peterssypets@gmx.de
<ul></ul><p>@Christian Thanks for your input. I guess what you are saying rather that "exendToSubpages" should be the default behaviour for some fields (such as hidden), be "on" by default?.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm sure any editor would expect, for example, to hide a page and that visiting its subpages will result in 404 as a result. And so it happens with the editors I deal with. I realized yesterday, with great surprise, that many child pages of hidden pages were visible and indexed by search engines :/</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Same thing here. Especially in the case of outdated, unmaintained pages this is a problem, but not intuitive, it is something you have to "know" (or be reminded about or "trained").</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm sure any editor would expect, for example, to hide a page and that visiting its subpages will result in 404 as a result.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Which is the case if extendToSubpages is activated.</p> TYPO3 Core - Bug #93540: It is not clear which options extendToSubpages in page properties aplies tohttp://forge.typo3.org/issues/93540?journal_id=4808342022-11-16T09:43:56ZChristian Toffolo
<ul></ul><p>Sybille Peters wrote in <a href="#note-16">#note-16</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>@Christian Thanks for your input. I guess what you are saying rather that "extendToSubpages" should be the default behaviour for some fields (such as hidden), be "on" by default?.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm saying the option should be the other way around. Something like "Stop inheriting access settings from parent pages".</p>
<p>I guess that it has the same effect of "extendToSubpages" on by default on all pages but this way sounds more confusing to me. I believe that something that changes a default behavior should be off by default.</p>
<p>Also, if you turn "extendToSubpages" on by default on all pages you'll have that [>>] symbol on all icons of the pages in the pagetree. Ok, this can be changed but still I think is a little more intuitive if it is the other way around.</p>
<blockquote><blockquote>
<p>IMHO, first of all this setting must be reversed.<br />The logic should be that a parent's setting is inherited from his children.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>do you mean "by its children"? (otherwise this sentence is a little misleading)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, "by its children". I corrected my post.</p>
<p>By the way, if the idea of reversing the option will make things too difficult to implement, I guess that it is also okay to activate extendToSubpages by default. But we have to fix the [>>] page icon that, in this case, must appear only if extendToSubpages is off and must be different to represent the end of inheritance.</p>