TYPO3 Core

Patch set 2 for branch master of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/62887

Patch set 3 for branch master of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/62887

"Releases: master, 9.5" is said in the box on the right. This is wrong. Will this be in v9 or not? We heavily depend on this condition... What is a workaround?

Does "LTS" mean anything these days?

Benni Mack wrote:

Does "LTS" mean anything these days?

Can you elaborate on this? LTS = "Long Term Support".

? Yes, Looooong Term Support.

I can only repeat what I already wrote in another ticket:

v9 is still LTS and marketed as an "enterprise CMS". Most big setups (the ones that are affected by such behaviour most) are starting just now to migrate now from 8 to 9 - hundreds-of-domain setups with loads of stakeholders and budgets of several 100k can't simply "early-adopt" or "upgrade to next version". The release schedule and time span for giving this kind of feedback for real-life setups (with a chance of fixing/implementing) of TYPO3 got way to tight lateley...

v9 is the version where we had to implement - by far - the most workaround/custom patches/hooks/xclasses after the upgrade form teh previous version. It's the version where we opened - by far - the most forge issues. And all we get replied is always "nah, only in 10" (or sometimes even "only in 11 if at all"). That's just frustrating.

doing this work for free

No, just no. People/companies are paying fees for the certificates. People/companies pay membership fees. People/companies donate (money, code, extensions or time). People do debugging and create forge issues in time for which they get paid by their own companies and should actually work for their own customers. Companies using TYPO3 for their customers spread the word about TYPO3 this way. That is totally not "for free". They trusted on terms like "*Long* Term Support" and "*Enterprise* CMS" when they decided to choose TYPO3 in the first place.

Benni Mack wrote:

I really appreciate to see that you need this functionality, however there are more than 2000 open issues, and if you can point me to the direction where I find more people doing this work for free, let me know. You can also check at the TYPO3 GmbH if they are willing to fix this bug.

I guess "Stefan P" is so upset, because of the claim, TYPO3 beeing an enterprise CMS:

We all know (first-hand or from stories), that proprietary enterprise-software isn't better in terms of "less bugs" or "more stable".

For me "TYPO3 Enterprise" does not mean, that anyone has to fix ALL BUGS ASAP. For me it means just: take reported bugs seriously. Stale issues from 10 years ago with serious bug-reports do not deserve to be closed after 10 years with the comment: "sorry, did not hear from you. stale issue. close". That's part of the story, how it was possible to "resolve" so many issues before the v10 release...

Enterprise in general should mean: focus on fixing bugs that are production-relevant first. nice-to-have features second.
Nobody needs to do that for free of course - but then TYPO3 needs to rethink the "ENTERPRISE" claim.
Noone would complain and insist on fixing bugs, when it would say: "TYPO3 - a pure community CMS". Then it is fine, that you either have to fix it yourself or wait for someone doing it for free. But telling the whole world: "TYPO3 - we are the ENTERPRISE CMS" just makes people think/assume, that any bug that is reported, MUST be fixed ASAP. Just because it is ENTERPRISE.

Back to topic:

For me as reported it is fine, to have the feature working in v10 and still using the deprecated syntax in v9 - as deprecations are not logged in production systems.

I'm not taking about "fix ASAP". Nobody can expect that. I'm talking about "fix them at all and care for the product". This very ticket here was reported in a time when v9 still was even in the regular schedule.

I have the feeling the "rapid release plan" with having two LTS versions and one dev-version simultaniously (9, 10 and 11) just does this: dev is "developed" (actually meaning "replaced by Symfony"), newer LTS gets critical bug fixes, older (but still claimed to be supoorted!) LTS is de-facto-abandoned.

But real enterprises (the ones with a lot of money, stakeholders, domains, features, huge code bases) must always to some agree be more conservative. They migrate always to the "older" (but claimed to be still supported!) LTS, because they need time and stability (9.5.0 was highly unstable for such big projects, they can't "just upgrade" rigth away, even if the client gave it's go from a budget POV - the upgarde of the custom code itself needs some month on its own in some cases anyways).

But exactly these big enterprises are the ones that rely most on these "rarely-used" core features (these features exactly meant for such big conservative enterprises).

v9 is still LTS and marketed as an "enterprise CMS". Most big setups (the ones that are affected by such behaviour most) are starting just now to migrate now from 8 to 9 - hundreds-of-domain setups with loads of stakeholders and budgets of several 100k can't simply "early-adopt" or "upgrade to next version". The release schedule and time span for giving this kind of feedback for real-life setups (with a chance of fixing/implementing) of TYPO3 got way to tight lateley...

Yes. We've learned from our mistakes we did in TYPO3 v9, and try to avoid making the same mistakes in v10 and v11 anymore.

v9 is the version where we had to implement - by far - the most workaround/custom patches/hooks/xclasses after the upgrade form teh previous version. It's the version where we opened - by far - the most forge issues. And all we get replied is always "nah, only in 10" (or sometimes even "only in 11 if at all"). That's just frustrating.

I can relate to that, and see that this is frustrating for you.

doing this work for free

No, just no. People/companies are paying fees for the certificates. People/companies pay membership fees. People/companies donate (money, code, extensions or time). People do debugging and create forge issues in time for which they get paid by their own companies and should actually work for their own customers. Companies using TYPO3 for their customers spread the word about TYPO3 this way. That is totally not "for free". They trusted on terms like "*Long* Term Support" and "*Enterprise* CMS" when they decided to choose TYPO3 in the first place.

Exactly. I donate my money, code, extensions and time, so others don't have to pay for the license fees. Read also about my commitment on fixing TYPO3 Core bugs even more seriously here https://b13.com/blog/investing-in-typo3-core-development

And instead of closing tickets I (personally) DO care about fixing as many bugs as possible, and we care about the issues your report on forge. Some of your other issues have been triaged already in the meantime - also feel free to reach out to me directly via Email, Phone or Slack to see if we can find a way to prioritize your pain points and make sure to have a "Enterprise"-worthy product which also keeps it promises on LTS in the future. I take your raised concerns seriously!