TYPO3 Core

Very good idea. Here's the code. But you already told us that ;-)

I've implemented this in skingreyman. You can check it out and download it here: http://teknowlogic.org/soft/typo3/

table#typo3-vmenu tr.c-mainitem-HL td,
table#typo3-vmenu tr.c-mainitem td {
cursor: pointer;
}

Hi,
that was intentional not to display it - because there is no functionality behind the "collapsing" - it is just linked if somebody accidently doesn't click the plus or minus... But maybe, if it is linked with a "pointer" style, the user expects something happening in the right frame.
Greets, Sebastian

Sebastian,

If the user clicks on the bar or the plus/minus sign, the function will become apparent immediately. Even if he expects something to show up in the frame on the right he will immediately after clikcing learn that this is not the reality. He wil understand immediately that clicking on the titles will roll up or down the menu's.

The cursor showing up as a pointer will help the user understand that the bar's can be clicked. It helps because the bar does not look like a button, just like a plain title with icon (and optionally a plus or minus sign). I does not help explain what exactly will happen.

Although I don't see the hand symbol anywhere else in my user interface when I hover over any button, except when hovering over links. I have to agree with you that the user then might expect it to work as a link instead of a menu control.

Well, it's more a feeling of how the left menu interacts with the user. Now it seems, that the title has no function, which is simply not true.

I personally encountered a strange feeling when I first clicked on the title instead of the plus/minus-icon and the module content suddenly disappeared.

In my point of view the whole title bar acts like a functional area which should be represented by a correct mouse icon ;)

Please see screenshot.

I discussed this problem with Michael, and we had another idea that the cursor doesn't change when being over the caption of the title. I have attached a diff, what do you think about this?
Greets, Sebastian

What about the attached menu.skingreyman.png. The headers look like buttons. In this case even the plus and minus signs were emptied (now clear pngs). In this case it would be strange if the cursor would only change when hovering over parts of the header.

So, I think it depends on the skin as well, if you underline the text etc.

I would go for an all or none solution. Form buttons don't get hands over them, still people click them.

As long as the object has strong enough affordance it's fine. When it doesn't, the user should be given an extra hint. The hinting could be done either by underlining the text when the user hovers anywhere on the header, by changing the cursor, or something else.

In the case of the default skin, I think an extra hint should be given.

Maybe I've got to add something to mit first Description:

The whole title area should transform the curser to "pointer".

Please, give it a try and add this to the stylesheet and feel like the left menu suddently works with you:

table#typo3-vmenu tr.c-mainitem-HL td,
table#typo3-vmenu tr.c-mainitem td {
cursor: pointer;
}

How great! ;)

While thinking about the left menu, I came to another point:

The plus/minus-image could be confusing on his current position, because is widely used over the Backend for folding directories and stuff, which is per default on the right side of the icon. The plus/minus-icon itself is on the right sight... something is false here.

This gets clearer, if you switch to Module "Task center":

Look at the plus/minus-buttons. Their position is different but they behave - all in all - the same.

Could it be an idea to remove this plus/minus-icons and make a "title"-Value appear when hovering over the title? Please see screenshot module_icon_2.gif.

I don't want to complicate things - I just tried to look at the backend as a newbie.

Thanks for listening :)

Hi,
I discussed this again with Michael and we came both to the conclusion that the document header should only be shown as linked when some action takes place in the right frames, as it would confuse the user otherways. Of course the solution now is not perfect anyways, but we thought this was easier for users.
Anyways, any skin can change this behavior, as this is pure CSS.
Greets, Sebastian

Committed to CVS head.