TYPO3 Core

Hi,

This ticket is very connected to the context menu one (#95246), and they should be applied together.

More information about the delete button problem and the proposed solution:

• a secondary action (maybe because we have first to create and edit before delete, and then, mathematically it's less often used than the other actions)
• a "destructive" action (editors don't like that, they often prefer to hide instead of deleting data forever)

Why editors often prefer to hide content than deleting it? even if the delete button is everywhere, even if we tell them that they can get it back with a recycler, etc. Because editors invested time and love in their contents, and they won't delete it until they are absolutly sure they won't need it again someday.

Putting a destructive action button on each and every content just next other editing action button is just a bad idea in terms of UX.

here is a link to an additional explanation: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/top-10-application-design-mistakes/ (the 10th "Proximity of Destructive and Confirmation Actions")

But why do we have the feeling that we (this forge ticket readers) use really often this delete button? Maybe because "we" are not the casual editor, we test a lot of contents and destroy it right after creating it. But we should keep in mind that the page module interface is not for the developers or integrators only, it's mainly for editors, whose main goal is to create content, not destroy it.

With both #95246 and #95247 we not propose to remove completely the delete action button but to only show it in the secondary actions menu, where it is already.

Rachel

• this leads to the problem that content will only be hidden and not deleted.
• thus the page module get cluttered with hidden content elements
• deleting a content element belongs to the live cycle of a content element just like hiding it
• power user want to get things done quickly, having a second click is cumbersome

From what I see in projects, the editors already are not cleaning up unneeded records, even if you remind them about the recycler functionality. They often event don't delete the example content, and only hide it.

Maybe we should think about a better cleanup strategy for editors. The desired result should be both a clean UI and a convenient workflow for cleaning up content.

Just my 2 cents and to ensure it has been mentioned: the devastating effect of a deletion is commonly solved by having a option to revert it. This is usually shown by a message right after delete which is hidden after some timeout. IMO this would also allow us to get rid of the deletion prompt since prompts are usually bad UX (force me to stop, force me to read, force me to understand, force me to decide.)

I don't claim that this is the solution since it requires editors to notice the message and understand it within a given timeframe. Also a11y could be an issue which may or may not be solved already with the existing "message with actions" setup.

Technically we already have something like this with the autogenerated redirects on page rename. These can be reverted right after creation or you can ignore them.

Patch set 1 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 2 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 3 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 4 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 5 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 6 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Mathias Brodala wrote in #note-10:

Just my 2 cents and to ensure it has been mentioned: the devastating effect of a deletion is commonly solved by having a option to revert it. This is usually shown by a message right after delete which is hidden after some timeout. IMO this would also allow us to get rid of the deletion prompt since prompts are usually bad UX (force me to stop, force me to read, force me to understand, force me to decide.)

In my opinion destructive actions must always require a confirmation from the user.
If we are talking of items that will go into the recycle bin, I agree that it's not a "fully destructive action" and a "gmail-style" temporary undo prompt could be an interesting solution.

something about the topic: https://uxdesign.cc/delete-models-in-products-because-sometimes-cats-walk-on-keyboards-6f886b767f6d

Patch set 7 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 8 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 9 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 10 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 11 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 12 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 13 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254

Patch set 14 for branch main of project Packages/TYPO3.CMS has been pushed to the review server.
It is available at https://review.typo3.org/c/Packages/TYPO3.CMS/+/74254